Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 02 2020 at 23:22): Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 02 2020 at 23:22):Hi all, there has been some discussion on whether we should use a Zoom "meeting" or webminar setup. I am moving the discussion with @Théo Zimmermann and @Hugo Herbelin here as to make it more interactive and gather other opinions.
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 06:02):Yes, I would have preferred a Zoom meeting because we don't plan on using the Q&A feature of webinars and meetings allow everyone to see the list of attendees. But this is really too late to have this debate @Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias: all the info that was already sent to session chairs is specific to webinars. It wouldn't be nice to change the setup now.
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 08:32):Please don't do "webinar" unless we are really so many. The point being that in such a setup people cannot unmute themselves and speak, as far as a I know, they have to raise the hand and be granted permission. While this can work fine for conference, workshops are usually more interactive. For example I'm making a demo, and I'd rather have the 5 minutes question during the demo, rather than after.
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 08:33):FTR, LFMTP was a regular meeting
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 08:45):Even in a meeting, it is possible for the hosts to manage who is muted and who can unmute, but that's not so clear for the video and the IJCAR-FSCD virtualization chair is very strongly advocating for a webinar in our case, due to the number of registered participants.
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 08:46):Anyway, the chairs will be able to relay the questions that are asked in the chats during the presentation, not only after. I don't think we'll use the "raise hand" feature either.
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 09:52):OK
Paolo Giarrusso (Jul 03 2020 at 10:13):Out of curiosity, can I ask, how many people registered?
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 10:18):284 people had registered yesterday at noon.
Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 03 2020 at 12:13):Indeed @Enrico Tassi webminars have several downsides, but it seems we are going with them, with the IJCAR organizers strongly discouraging the meeting option due to some "security"? and scalability problems. We understand your concerns and we will try to do our best with the chat + raise hand.
Gaëtan Gilbert (Jul 03 2020 at 12:16):Will there be web client access?
Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 03 2020 at 12:30):I don't think zoom has a web client, there is streaming to youtube
Gaëtan Gilbert (Jul 03 2020 at 12:32):https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/115005666383-Show-a-Join-from-your-browser-Link
Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 03 2020 at 12:33):I'll ask the organizers; this is something that needs to be done on their level I think
Yannick Forster (Jul 03 2020 at 13:03):I'm a bit late to the discussion, but yesterday during the business meeting Andrei Popescu mentioned that the Isabelle workshop used a meeting instead of a webinar and they were all very happy with it. My main issue (besides the ones mentioned by Enrico) is that I can not see who else is there in a Webinar and I don't have the feeling of the community being present, which normally is one of the best parts of CoqWSs
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 13:05):This is also my main issue with the webinar setup. Do you know how many participants were there in the Isabelle workshop?
Yannick Forster (Jul 03 2020 at 13:07):No idea unfortunately
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 13:08):@Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias Zoom has a pretty decent web client
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 13:08):I did meetings with ~ 30 participants
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 13:09):LFMTP was around that size as well
Yannick Forster (Jul 03 2020 at 13:10):Can panelists in a webinar see other panelists? Naive idea: it might be an option to just promote more attendees (all? whoever wants to?) to be panelists, every attendee who wants to ask a question is promoted anyways
Karl Palmskog (Jul 03 2020 at 13:11):I second the use of ridiculously many panelists, I think it's the only way of even seeing who is there?
Karl Palmskog (Jul 03 2020 at 13:12):IJCAR session as pure participant feels like being stuck in a box and peering out
Yannick Forster (Jul 03 2020 at 13:12):Yes, I think normal attendees can not see who is in the room, just sometimes see the number of people attending (but in my case that was not deterministic, sometimes I couldn't get this information either)
Cyril Cohen (Jul 03 2020 at 13:13):Karl Palmskog said:
IJCAR session as pure participant feels like being stuck in a box and peering out
And as a panelist it feels like you are talking to no-one, very disturbing.
EDIT: maybe I should add this reflects my own feeling about seeing no faces while I talk (indeed, even most panelist cut their camera in many occurrence)
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 13:15):Side question, will be the talks recorded? I'd like mine to be. When I was "co-host" at LFMTP I had a button to record (in addition to the youtube thing they do) and it worked nicely.
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 13:16):The plan is to cut it after the facts, keeping only the demo, and link it in the HB page as a short tutorial.
Yannick Forster (Jul 03 2020 at 13:16):Even in case there are no recordings by default, I think panelists can record themselves if they want to (https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/360000252726-Roles-in-a-Webinar)
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 13:17):Cool thanks! (I did not know if "panelist" and "co-host" have the same powers)
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 13:18):wait, the doc is clearly false, I was co-host and I could record locally
Enrico Tassi (Jul 03 2020 at 13:18):sorry, bear with me, I still have to have lunch ;-)
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 13:23):Yes, the talks will be recorded. That's why we asked you to sign an agreement.
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 13:23):I think you give a lot more power to a panelist than to a normal participant in a normal meeting.
Bas Spitters (Jul 03 2020 at 13:35):@Cyril Cohen You'll just have to make some provocative statements and you'll be sure to get some questions...
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 13:39):In each session, we should have enough panelists so that you don't feel completely alone ;-)
Cyril Cohen (Jul 03 2020 at 13:45):Bas Spitters said:
Cyril Cohen You'll just have to make some provocative statements and you'll be sure to get some questions...
Oh, really? I did not intend it that way, what did you feel was provocative in my statement?
EDIT: sorry I misread your question
Cyril Cohen (Jul 03 2020 at 13:50):Bas Spitters said:
Cyril Cohen You'll just have to make some provocative statements and you'll be sure to get some questions...
I am talking about the visual feedback which cannot come from regular attendees but only panelist, I don't want to be interrupted while talking either...
Bas Spitters (Jul 03 2020 at 14:25):If the panelists leave their cameras on, I guess you can see them? I haven't used zoom webinars before. It works well in zoom.
Karl Palmskog (Jul 03 2020 at 14:26):as an IJCAR participant, I see at most either the session char or the current speaker, nobody else.
Cyril Cohen (Jul 03 2020 at 14:27):Karl Palmskog said:
as an IJCAR participant, I see at most either the session char or the current speaker, nobody else.
I think it is for bandwidth reasons
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 14:45):Karl Palmskog said:
as an IJCAR participant, I see at most either the session char or the current speaker, nobody else.
Oh indeed, that's too bad again. You indeed have a lot more control on what you see in a meeting.
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 14:45):But could it be that the other participants simply turned off their video?
Karl Palmskog (Jul 03 2020 at 14:46):I see no option to turn on/off my video as a participant. At most, I can mute/unmute when the chair allows it (gives me permission).
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 14:46):I think when we tested the webinar feature with workshop organizers, at least panelists could see the videos of all the other panelists.
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 14:47):Karl Palmskog said:
I see no option to turn on/off my video as a participant
That's normal: this is reserved to panelists.
Yannick Forster (Jul 03 2020 at 14:57):That's why my suggestion was to promote everybody to panelist :) It would be a good first step to be able to see all panelists as a normal attendee, but in the current setup ijcar uses in the main tracks that's definitely not possible
Yannick Forster (Jul 03 2020 at 14:58):Even just being able to see both the speaker and the person asking a question at the same time rather than having zoom choose who to show would be an improvement
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 15:24):If Zoom refuses to show several participants' videos at once to participants, panels are going to be a nightmare...
Yannick Forster (Jul 03 2020 at 15:33):Oh, that's a very good point. There might be a setting to change this, but in the webinars as used for the tracks one person at once was the maximum
Paolo Giarrusso (Jul 03 2020 at 16:05):https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/200917029-Getting-Started-With-Webinar
You can have 100 panelists (including the host) in a Webinar.
Paolo Giarrusso (Jul 03 2020 at 16:07):so technically I think that's fine, the question is about licenses/settings/privileges
Paolo Giarrusso (Jul 03 2020 at 16:07):I've been at zoom meetings with hundreds of people, usually without problems (except the 700-people SPJ talk)
Paolo Giarrusso (Jul 03 2020 at 16:09):(and https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/115004834466-Managing-Participants-in-Webinar seems to allow all the various options)
Cyril Cohen (Jul 03 2020 at 16:11):BTW will we benefit from the Zoom registration from IJCAR and FSCD organizing committees?
Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 03 2020 at 16:11):@Cyril Cohen if you mean the licence, yes, we are using it
Paolo Giarrusso (Jul 03 2020 at 16:17):My 2 cents: IIUC "all participants as panelists" doesn't fit the "max 100 panelists" limit; all who want to, and who you trust not to be "disruptive" (that is, people zoom-bombing the call). I'm not sure if there are other "security" concerns?
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 16:26):I really don't like the idea of abusing the panelist system. Lots of unknown. I'd much prefer to frankly decide between meeting and webinar.
Théo Zimmermann (Jul 03 2020 at 16:26):Paolo G. Giarrusso said:
(and https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/115004834466-Managing-Participants-in-Webinar seems to allow all the various options)
IIUC then it is possible to activate the gallery view in webinars.
Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 03 2020 at 16:29):Maybe we could do a test run tomorrow with the IJCAR people?
Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 03 2020 at 16:29):We can test with my own institutional Zoom account, but I don't have the webminar addon activated
Paul Snively (Jul 04 2020 at 14:57):Do we have a Zoom link yet? :-)
Karl Palmskog (Jul 04 2020 at 15:07):as a panelist, I got my link at least.
Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 04 2020 at 15:28):@Paul Snively we will add the link to the webpage soon , there was some discussion on the zoom format to use
Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 04 2020 at 15:28):but as we have settled on a webminar the link can be made public
Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jul 04 2020 at 15:28):we will also post the link here
Last updated: May 31 2023 at 04:01 UTC