Hi folks, as a follow up from the Hackathon, we were thinking of doing a half-a-day dune hacking event, mostly related to Coq, but of course it doesn't have to be limited to it.
What do you think? I'll be happy to co-organize it, and IMO it makes much more sense as the Hackathon was too spread out as to gain the required focused hacking energy.
We will be doing something similar for jsCoq BTW
Let's do it. European evening times work best for me
Yes! @Rodolphe Lepigre WDYT?
Yeah, sounds great! I really think it would not take much to implement a large part of the missing features.
And that kind of event would be great to help me understand better how dune works, and let me be more efficient at hacking it.
Great, I'm almost done with heavy paperwork
@Rudi Grinberg you are up to be co-organizer?
Yes, I can do it
What dates do you have in mind?
Let's do it before March 10 if ya'll don't mind.
@Rudi Grinberg before the 17th is pretty bad for me, would it work for you after?
if not I could adapt, but will be way more constrained
We can do it after the 17th. I cannot say which dates will work for me yet though
Ok, thanks @Rudi Grinberg , we'll setup a doodle and find the best date then
that way we can give it a bit more publicity
which IMO could be interesting
and discuss about it in the dune meeting, I should attend the next ones without problem
I'm back now, so we can pick a date.
Great @Rudi Grinberg
Shall we start a wiki page for collecting things we want to work on?
Yes @Ali Caglayan that seems a great idea
There is some tracking of stuff in this project https://github.com/coq/coq/projects/15
I started a wiki page https://github.com/coq/coq/wiki/DuneWG-2022
I'd like to chat about this in the Dune meeting, which was postponed unfortunately until next Wed, so IMHO we could try to set a date next week, what do you think?
@Ali Caglayan thanks for picking up the "single coqdep call" task!
Just so you know, there is a good chance I won't be able to attend the event if it happens in the next few weeks. I might still be able to work on dune stuff form time to time though, so it'd be great if the event could be recorded.
Yes, we will record the event @Rodolphe Lepigre
Hi folks, we had a brief chat about the event at the Dune Call, and we decided to go ahead!
We will coordiante here, but basically the main point is to make a small announcement and set the date
Would some testing in how far dune works on Windows without a posix shell be appreciated during the event? IMHO this would be an important step to get a cygwin less Windows opam (another one would be to have some replacement for autoconf for the opam packages which use it).
@Michael Soegtrop dune works fine in windows, do you have an particular issue on mind?
Opam issues are out of scope for this event
@Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias I think @Michael Soegtrop has in mind that "if dune works fine on windows" and "coq is built using dune" then "will dune build coq fine on windows".
I didn't try it but the building of packages is said to be the main problem for having a cygwin free opam. In the end I wanted to make my own picture on if there are issues, mostly to be able to talk to the opam folks with first hand knowledge. I thought such an event might be a good place to do such tests, and possibly discuss the results.
I would wager that is still a no since we do some POSIX stuff in coqdep for instance. We use the Unix library all the time. Since dune people have experience getting dune (an ocaml project) working on Windows, I would agree that they might be the people to talk to.
As I mention in https://github.com/coq/coq/issues/9199 , the build should be fine in posix-less envs.
Michael writes "Would some testing in how far dune works on Windows without a posix shell be appreciated during the event?" TTBOMK there is no such testing needed as dune works and is used by windows industrials users daily
@Ali Caglayan the "Unix" library is ill-named, and, with a few minor limitations, works fine on windows too
Yes dune works on windows, does it compile Coq fine on windows too?
well, it provides a cross-platform unix api, but it is not limited to OCaml unix
Ali Caglayan said:
Yes dune works on windows, does it compile Coq fine on windows too?
It should, I can't test it tho, but that's welcome
windows + dune issues are welcome I think, but we should check there are some first
We probably want to mention the wiki page so people can add topics: https://github.com/coq/coq/wiki/DuneWG-2022
It'd be great indeed to test how far dune works on Windows without a posix shell, but we know it works
@Ali Caglayan yes we need to mention that, we will prepare an announcement
I understand there are some other issues on windows, but more related to OCaml / Opam than to dune itself
I think OCaml + Windows is, in general, its own topic.
Looking at the coq build, there seem to be quite a few bash/sh scripts. I think rewriting those to OCaml will basically solve your problem of building coq on windows
Dune itself is very careful not to rely on any external binaries or Unix'isms. As Emilio mentioned, dune is well tested on Windows by the LexiFi people.
@Rudi Grinberg as of today we don't rely on any bash / sh for the core build
cc @Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias @Rudi Grinberg
Let's get the ball rolling on this hacking event.
Topics I would like to cover:
I've added it here: https://github.com/coq/coq/wiki/DuneWG-2022
By the way, we probably don't want to make this a whole big hacking event. We could announce simply a date we want to meet and tell everybody that they are welcome to attend along.
The less formal we make this the better IMO
I also wouldn’t mind a few smaller sessions over a single large one to accommodate different schedules
Yes let's get back on track
How does Wednesday 22nd of June next month work for everyone?
Works fine for me
Works fine for me
Hi folks, maybe we can start elaborating the program and putting some wider announcement out?
by program, do you mean we should have presentations ready?
@Rudi Grinberg as we want
we can just hack, I guess we should at least define start and end time
Yeah. Though, I'm not against presentations, if there's something people want to hear about I'm glad to talk about it. I just don't want to pick some random needle in a haystack about dune and ramble about it while everyone is dosing off.
Yes, makese sense. By program I mean more "have an idea what we'd like to do and how to organize"
How about we keep each session to 2 hours or less. I suppose we can do 2-3 sessions each day? Depending on how people feel.
For software, I propose we all use discord. BBB worked poorly for me.
To screenshare, we can use vscode's live sharing thing. Or for emacs, vim, etc I found https://tmate.io to be quite usable
Yes, no BBB
Zoom or discord are fine
I'l propose to repeat the "Introduction to dune API" for one hour maybe, as the last time it was not properly recorded
we can do 15 mins intro and working groups
45 mins "intro to Dune's API" for those interested
and rest hacking
We got the wiki https://github.com/coq/coq/wiki/DuneWG-2022
I think we should tho send some small announcement maybe to ocaml's discuss?
and also Coq's lists?
All o the above sound good to me. Note that we have a "HACKING.rst" document that everyone can read as well before the event
One thing I thought about: would it make sense to review the dune docs by a dune outsider (like me) and maybe improve it during the hackaton? I think the documentation is quite good already, but still has a few weaknesses - e.g. a "Quickstart for Coq" section would be nice and IMHO the overview/terminology section could say just a bit more (not much really just a bit) on how the various concepts work together.
I think so @Michael Soegtrop !
OK. When is the hacking event planned? Is it online or in person?
Also @Michael Soegtrop did you see my recent changes to the Coq documentation in Dune? https://dune.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coq.html
It is going to be released with Dune 3.3
All the Coq stuff now has it's own page
@Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias : thanks - and no - I started at the top and don't think I came across a link in the intro / quick start sections.
The hacking event is planned for the 22nd
I thought the info was on the wiki, but it is not.
I've added it.
OK, I won't come to Paris, but I plan to review the docs at the same time, do some suggestions for clarifications and maybe we can discuss these in an online meeting some time.
Yes, that seems a good idea, note the workshop is in Paris time, but fully online
Just a heads up, I'll be a bit late to the event. Paris afternoon time is the middle of the night for me, but I should be able to join when I wake up.
Hi folks, I was in holiday for the last 5 days, did we announce the day in some place in the end?
Otherwise we may not be many !
The date and place is right at the top of https://github.com/coq/coq/wiki/DuneWG-2022
As I said I won't be physically there but plan to go through the dune docs at the same time and it would be helpful if people would be available for questions.
Yes, but we didn't advertise it anywhere except here, moreover we should add the zoom link, and exact start time
We can maybe talk @Michael Soegtrop , I didn't got to catch you in Antibes
Might be a good idea for everyone who is planning to attend to let us know. So that we have a rough idea how many people are coming
@Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias : sure, we can have a Zoom/WebEx chat.
@Rudi Grinberg I'm gonna define some "official" times, like 4pm - 7pm Paris time
when do you exactly plan to join?
and add a zoom link, plus the participants list
I should be after 5 pm for sure
Ok so I propose 4 pm / 7 pm for now
alright, where are we doing this?
@Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias ping
Let's use this for now until Emilio shows up
Ok, I'm back, sorry folks I got delayed
on my way to the office
I am reviewing the docs - I will join when I have questions / things to discuss. Otherwise I am just doing notes.
I am now finished with the Overview and Quickstart sections (which I guess are most important for new users). What should I do with my notes?
@Michael Soegtrop Would you like to join?
Sure, I have 30 minutes to my next meeting.
Last updated: Jun 03 2023 at 17:29 UTC