Stream: Dune devs & users

Topic: Dune Hacking event


view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Feb 21 2022 at 16:38):

Hi folks, as a follow up from the Hackathon, we were thinking of doing a half-a-day dune hacking event, mostly related to Coq, but of course it doesn't have to be limited to it.

What do you think? I'll be happy to co-organize it, and IMO it makes much more sense as the Hackathon was too spread out as to gain the required focused hacking energy.

We will be doing something similar for jsCoq BTW

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Feb 21 2022 at 17:33):

Let's do it. European evening times work best for me

view this post on Zulip Paolo Giarrusso (Feb 21 2022 at 17:36):

Yes! @Rodolphe Lepigre WDYT?

view this post on Zulip Rodolphe Lepigre (Feb 21 2022 at 17:43):

Yeah, sounds great! I really think it would not take much to implement a large part of the missing features.
And that kind of event would be great to help me understand better how dune works, and let me be more efficient at hacking it.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Feb 28 2022 at 19:02):

Great, I'm almost done with heavy paperwork

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Feb 28 2022 at 19:02):

@Rudi Grinberg you are up to be co-organizer?

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Feb 28 2022 at 19:54):

Yes, I can do it

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Feb 28 2022 at 20:58):

What dates do you have in mind?

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Feb 28 2022 at 21:05):

Let's do it before March 10 if ya'll don't mind.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 01 2022 at 13:14):

@Rudi Grinberg before the 17th is pretty bad for me, would it work for you after?

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 01 2022 at 13:15):

if not I could adapt, but will be way more constrained

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Mar 01 2022 at 17:26):

We can do it after the 17th. I cannot say which dates will work for me yet though

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 01 2022 at 17:33):

Ok, thanks @Rudi Grinberg , we'll setup a doodle and find the best date then

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 01 2022 at 17:33):

that way we can give it a bit more publicity

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 01 2022 at 17:33):

which IMO could be interesting

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 01 2022 at 17:34):

and discuss about it in the dune meeting, I should attend the next ones without problem

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Mar 29 2022 at 20:58):

I'm back now, so we can pick a date.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 30 2022 at 12:31):

Great @Rudi Grinberg

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Mar 30 2022 at 13:05):

Shall we start a wiki page for collecting things we want to work on?

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 30 2022 at 17:29):

Yes @Ali Caglayan that seems a great idea

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 30 2022 at 17:35):

There is some tracking of stuff in this project https://github.com/coq/coq/projects/15

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Mar 30 2022 at 18:31):

I started a wiki page https://github.com/coq/coq/wiki/DuneWG-2022

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 31 2022 at 09:32):

Fantastic!

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 31 2022 at 09:33):

I'd like to chat about this in the Dune meeting, which was postponed unfortunately until next Wed, so IMHO we could try to set a date next week, what do you think?

view this post on Zulip Paolo Giarrusso (Mar 31 2022 at 14:33):

@Ali Caglayan thanks for picking up the "single coqdep call" task!

view this post on Zulip Rodolphe Lepigre (Mar 31 2022 at 14:43):

Just so you know, there is a good chance I won't be able to attend the event if it happens in the next few weeks. I might still be able to work on dune stuff form time to time though, so it'd be great if the event could be recorded.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Mar 31 2022 at 15:32):

Yes, we will record the event @Rodolphe Lepigre

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 16:51):

Hi folks, we had a brief chat about the event at the Dune Call, and we decided to go ahead!

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 16:52):

We will coordiante here, but basically the main point is to make a small announcement and set the date

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Apr 06 2022 at 17:41):

Would some testing in how far dune works on Windows without a posix shell be appreciated during the event? IMHO this would be an important step to get a cygwin less Windows opam (another one would be to have some replacement for autoconf for the opam packages which use it).

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:10):

@Michael Soegtrop dune works fine in windows, do you have an particular issue on mind?

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:11):

Opam issues are out of scope for this event

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Apr 06 2022 at 18:15):

@Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias I think @Michael Soegtrop has in mind that "if dune works fine on windows" and "coq is built using dune" then "will dune build coq fine on windows".

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Apr 06 2022 at 18:16):

I didn't try it but the building of packages is said to be the main problem for having a cygwin free opam. In the end I wanted to make my own picture on if there are issues, mostly to be able to talk to the opam folks with first hand knowledge. I thought such an event might be a good place to do such tests, and possibly discuss the results.

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Apr 06 2022 at 18:19):

I would wager that is still a no since we do some POSIX stuff in coqdep for instance. We use the Unix library all the time. Since dune people have experience getting dune (an ocaml project) working on Windows, I would agree that they might be the people to talk to.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:19):

As I mention in https://github.com/coq/coq/issues/9199 , the build should be fine in posix-less envs.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:20):

Michael writes "Would some testing in how far dune works on Windows without a posix shell be appreciated during the event?" TTBOMK there is no such testing needed as dune works and is used by windows industrials users daily

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:20):

@Ali Caglayan the "Unix" library is ill-named, and, with a few minor limitations, works fine on windows too

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Apr 06 2022 at 18:20):

Yes dune works on windows, does it compile Coq fine on windows too?

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:20):

well, it provides a cross-platform unix api, but it is not limited to OCaml unix

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:21):

Ali Caglayan said:

Yes dune works on windows, does it compile Coq fine on windows too?

It should, I can't test it tho, but that's welcome

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:21):

windows + dune issues are welcome I think, but we should check there are some first

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Apr 06 2022 at 18:22):

We probably want to mention the wiki page so people can add topics: https://github.com/coq/coq/wiki/DuneWG-2022

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:22):

It'd be great indeed to test how far dune works on Windows without a posix shell, but we know it works

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:23):

@Ali Caglayan yes we need to mention that, we will prepare an announcement

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:23):

I understand there are some other issues on windows, but more related to OCaml / Opam than to dune itself

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 18:24):

I think OCaml + Windows is, in general, its own topic.

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Apr 06 2022 at 19:11):

Looking at the coq build, there seem to be quite a few bash/sh scripts. I think rewriting those to OCaml will basically solve your problem of building coq on windows

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Apr 06 2022 at 19:12):

Dune itself is very careful not to rely on any external binaries or Unix'isms. As Emilio mentioned, dune is well tested on Windows by the LexiFi people.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Apr 06 2022 at 19:35):

@Rudi Grinberg as of today we don't rely on any bash / sh for the core build

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (May 22 2022 at 22:55):

cc @Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias @Rudi Grinberg
Let's get the ball rolling on this hacking event.

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (May 22 2022 at 22:58):

Topics I would like to cover:

I've added it here: https://github.com/coq/coq/wiki/DuneWG-2022

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (May 22 2022 at 23:04):

By the way, we probably don't want to make this a whole big hacking event. We could announce simply a date we want to meet and tell everybody that they are welcome to attend along.

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (May 22 2022 at 23:05):

The less formal we make this the better IMO

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (May 23 2022 at 00:06):

I also wouldn’t mind a few smaller sessions over a single large one to accommodate different schedules

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (May 23 2022 at 12:37):

Great!

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (May 23 2022 at 12:37):

Yes let's get back on track

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (May 23 2022 at 19:17):

How does Wednesday 22nd of June next month work for everyone?

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (May 23 2022 at 20:48):

Works fine for me

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (May 24 2022 at 10:35):

Works fine for me

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 10 2022 at 12:40):

Hi folks, maybe we can start elaborating the program and putting some wider announcement out?

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Jun 10 2022 at 15:05):

by program, do you mean we should have presentations ready?

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 10 2022 at 15:11):

@Rudi Grinberg as we want

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 10 2022 at 15:12):

we can just hack, I guess we should at least define start and end time

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Jun 10 2022 at 15:29):

Yeah. Though, I'm not against presentations, if there's something people want to hear about I'm glad to talk about it. I just don't want to pick some random needle in a haystack about dune and ramble about it while everyone is dosing off.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 10 2022 at 18:06):

Yes, makese sense. By program I mean more "have an idea what we'd like to do and how to organize"

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Jun 11 2022 at 16:26):

How about we keep each session to 2 hours or less. I suppose we can do 2-3 sessions each day? Depending on how people feel.

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Jun 11 2022 at 16:27):

For software, I propose we all use discord. BBB worked poorly for me.

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Jun 11 2022 at 16:28):

To screenshare, we can use vscode's live sharing thing. Or for emacs, vim, etc I found https://tmate.io to be quite usable

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 12 2022 at 12:20):

Yes, no BBB

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 12 2022 at 12:20):

Zoom or discord are fine

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 13 2022 at 20:50):

I'l propose to repeat the "Introduction to dune API" for one hour maybe, as the last time it was not properly recorded

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 13 2022 at 20:50):

WDYT folks

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 13 2022 at 20:51):

we can do 15 mins intro and working groups

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 13 2022 at 20:51):

45 mins "intro to Dune's API" for those interested

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 13 2022 at 20:51):

and rest hacking

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 13 2022 at 20:51):

We got the wiki https://github.com/coq/coq/wiki/DuneWG-2022

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 13 2022 at 20:51):

I think we should tho send some small announcement maybe to ocaml's discuss?

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 13 2022 at 20:51):

and also Coq's lists?

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Jun 13 2022 at 22:22):

All o the above sound good to me. Note that we have a "HACKING.rst" document that everyone can read as well before the event

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 14 2022 at 07:15):

One thing I thought about: would it make sense to review the dune docs by a dune outsider (like me) and maybe improve it during the hackaton? I think the documentation is quite good already, but still has a few weaknesses - e.g. a "Quickstart for Coq" section would be nice and IMHO the overview/terminology section could say just a bit more (not much really just a bit) on how the various concepts work together.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 14 2022 at 10:59):

I think so @Michael Soegtrop !

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 14 2022 at 11:19):

OK. When is the hacking event planned? Is it online or in person?

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 14 2022 at 11:25):

Online

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 14 2022 at 11:26):

Also @Michael Soegtrop did you see my recent changes to the Coq documentation in Dune? https://dune.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coq.html

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 14 2022 at 11:26):

It is going to be released with Dune 3.3

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 14 2022 at 11:27):

All the Coq stuff now has it's own page

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 14 2022 at 11:32):

@Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias : thanks - and no - I started at the top and don't think I came across a link in the intro / quick start sections.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 14 2022 at 13:41):

The hacking event is planned for the 22nd

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 14 2022 at 13:42):

I thought the info was on the wiki, but it is not.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 14 2022 at 13:42):

I've added it.

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 14 2022 at 14:35):

OK, I won't come to Paris, but I plan to review the docs at the same time, do some suggestions for clarifications and maybe we can discuss these in an online meeting some time.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 14 2022 at 14:39):

Yes, that seems a good idea, note the workshop is in Paris time, but fully online

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Jun 19 2022 at 14:28):

Just a heads up, I'll be a bit late to the event. Paris afternoon time is the middle of the night for me, but I should be able to join when I wake up.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 21 2022 at 13:46):

Hi folks, I was in holiday for the last 5 days, did we announce the day in some place in the end?

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 21 2022 at 13:46):

Otherwise we may not be many !

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 21 2022 at 14:17):

The date and place is right at the top of https://github.com/coq/coq/wiki/DuneWG-2022

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 21 2022 at 14:18):

As I said I won't be physically there but plan to go through the dune docs at the same time and it would be helpful if people would be available for questions.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 21 2022 at 14:44):

Yes, but we didn't advertise it anywhere except here, moreover we should add the zoom link, and exact start time

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 21 2022 at 14:44):

We can maybe talk @Michael Soegtrop , I didn't got to catch you in Antibes

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Jun 21 2022 at 15:07):

Might be a good idea for everyone who is planning to attend to let us know. So that we have a rough idea how many people are coming

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 21 2022 at 16:45):

@Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias : sure, we can have a Zoom/WebEx chat.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 21 2022 at 16:49):

@Rudi Grinberg I'm gonna define some "official" times, like 4pm - 7pm Paris time

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 21 2022 at 16:49):

when do you exactly plan to join?

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 21 2022 at 16:49):

and add a zoom link, plus the participants list

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Jun 21 2022 at 17:05):

I should be after 5 pm for sure

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 21 2022 at 17:26):

Ok so I propose 4 pm / 7 pm for now

view this post on Zulip Rudi Grinberg (Jun 22 2022 at 14:01):

alright, where are we doing this?

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 22 2022 at 14:03):

@Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias ping

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 22 2022 at 14:06):

https://us04web.zoom.us/j/74643933824?pwd=awG3Yn2mcUUoZB6rF0315c5S_nzPoG.1

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 22 2022 at 14:07):

Let's use this for now until Emilio shows up

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 22 2022 at 14:22):

Ok, I'm back, sorry folks I got delayed

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 22 2022 at 14:22):

on my way to the office

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 22 2022 at 14:37):

I am reviewing the docs - I will join when I have questions / things to discuss. Otherwise I am just doing notes.

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 22 2022 at 14:39):

https://wesleyan.zoom.us/j/8577973776

view this post on Zulip Emilio Jesús Gallego Arias (Jun 22 2022 at 14:39):

Thanks Michael

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 22 2022 at 15:43):

I am now finished with the Overview and Quickstart sections (which I guess are most important for new users). What should I do with my notes?

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 22 2022 at 15:44):

@Michael Soegtrop Would you like to join?

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 22 2022 at 15:44):

Sure, I have 30 minutes to my next meeting.


Last updated: Feb 04 2023 at 02:03 UTC