Stream: coq-community devs & users

Topic: Recommending VsCode vs. VsCodium


view this post on Zulip Karl Palmskog (Jun 20 2022 at 21:33):

I recently learned about the difference between VsCode and VsCodium. Long story short, VsCode binaries are distributed under a non-open-source license by Microsoft, even though they are built mostly from source code that is under MIT. VsCodium leaves the binaries under MIT and disables telemetry by default.

Given that Coq-community is committed to free and open source software, should we perhaps resolve to always recommend VsCodium over VsCode for use with VsCoq? Since VsCoq is already in the free, non-Microsoft VSX marketplace, the only reason to use VsCode+VsCoq is seemingly for using them together with other proprietary extensions.

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 20 2022 at 21:55):

I don't know if I would go as far as recommending VsCodium over VsCode especially for beginners. However I think it would be useful for people who care about this sort of thing to know VsCodium can be used instead. Since @Théo Zimmermann is knowledgeable about free and open source software, perhaps he can add more.

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 20 2022 at 21:56):

Personally for me, it doesn't matter much. But I am not a representative user.

view this post on Zulip Théo Zimmermann (Jun 20 2022 at 22:06):

I don't have an opinion on the matter.

view this post on Zulip Karl Palmskog (Jun 20 2022 at 22:07):

some more recent background here: https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/1537175065380495367

Truly disappointing that Microsoft would subvert an active open source project by ramming in a proprietary extension to continue to lockdown .NET. An unaccetable abuse of power from the stewards of the platform, and a betrayal of the community. https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/1537175065380495367/photo/1

- Miguel de Icaza (@migueldeicaza)

view this post on Zulip Karl Palmskog (Jun 20 2022 at 22:08):

this was about a VsCode extension related to C#, but it shows where the wind is blowing, in some sense

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 20 2022 at 22:34):

Maybe I am unaware of the bigger context here. But is C# not Microsoft's project to begin with? If they implement a closed source LSP server, so what?

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 20 2022 at 22:37):

The compiler of C# started off as a closed source project, then mono came a long with open-source cross platform support and Microsoft bought it and then open-sourced much of the C# infrastructure.

view this post on Zulip Ali Caglayan (Jun 20 2022 at 22:37):

But I don't see how this is relevant to Microsoft owning Github, VSCode etc.

view this post on Zulip Karl Palmskog (Jun 20 2022 at 22:55):

Microsoft owns the VsCode Marketplace, and can shut it down anytime, or throw apps out, etc. Seems reasonable to funnel people towards an alternative where that doesn't happen.

view this post on Zulip Michael Soegtrop (Jun 21 2022 at 08:22):

I don't think we should recommend one over the other, simply name both options (well maybe put VSCodium in the front). More important IMHO is that we make sure VSCoq always works on VSCodium - initially (before VSX) using VSCoq in VSCodium was a bit rough, but now it is fine.

view this post on Zulip Karl Palmskog (Jun 21 2022 at 08:31):

OK, I think we can then ask @Maxime Dénès how he feels about naming clearly both VsCode+marketplace and VsCodium+VSX in the VsCoq README (I'd be willing to submit a PR)

view this post on Zulip Maxime Dénès (Jun 21 2022 at 08:40):

My first reaction would be I'd like to keep clear that VsCoq is a VsCode extension, because that's what most people are looking for (they typically don't know about VsCodium). Definitely ok with adding some text about VsCoq also supporting VsCodium (and making it true, of course). Even ok with some text explaining the differences between VsCode and VsCodium if not too controversial.

view this post on Zulip Maxime Dénès (Jun 21 2022 at 08:45):

Karl Palmskog said:

Microsoft owns the VsCode Marketplace, and can shut it down anytime, or throw apps out, etc. Seems reasonable to funnel people towards an alternative where that doesn't happen.

I must confess I'm very ignorant on this. What measures are taken on the open-vsx side to prevent the Eclipse Foundation from being able to do the same?

The vendor neutral argument of the approach seemed more obvious to me.

view this post on Zulip Karl Palmskog (Jun 21 2022 at 08:50):

I just tested VsCodium+VSX+VsCoq and it works fine. I'm fine with the "vendor neutral" approach.

view this post on Zulip Karl Palmskog (Jun 21 2022 at 08:53):

for any piece of infrastructure, there are measures that can be taken by the owner, but it seems clear that the respective interests/incentives of Microsoft vs. Eclipse Foundation are somewhat different.

view this post on Zulip Karl Palmskog (Jun 21 2022 at 09:43):

https://github.com/coq-community/vscoq/pull/296

view this post on Zulip Karl Palmskog (Jun 23 2022 at 09:53):

@Maxime Dénès any chance for a review of the vendor-neutral-VsCodium-in-README PR?


Last updated: Feb 05 2023 at 13:02 UTC